Yup, demonstrated some of my finnish writing skills to let him know i'm not interested. @spongefile: the person who invented the game has lot to answer for. Not a fan of the rules at all, just think they ruin all the fun.
The Game, in my opinion, is a list of actions deduced by observation without actually understanding the reasons why they work. It's like knowing how to tell time by the sun while still thinking that it revolves around the earth.
Yah. I've been the target of several amateurish attempts by Mr. Strauss's acolytes way back when I was still seen in clubs on a semi-regular basis, before I passed through the Membrane of Parenthood. :)
Now the guy is calling it as sarcasim and wanted to point out for the use of smileys...he's certainly not my type if he thinks that was sarcastic or funny. Will just ignore his second mail.
this is why one should keep digital communication with a potential (or current) mate as limited as possible. for me at least, i can have an epic conversation without saying a word. all it takes is a smile, nod, wink and a gentle grace of the hand or knee to tell where things are going to go.
Sarcasm should not require smileys. Then again, maybe it's his best effort? If he's not an arrogant shit, he could just be shy and trying out what his friends told him to do. Chatting up women is hard.
Good point besides flirting is much more fun in IRL but first you need to get that far ;-) Always prefer meeting people in person anyways but everything seems to done by text or email over here...
I don't think chatting up women is hard...it's just perceived hard. People should just talk to each other more. Would love to have more flirting in everyday life over here, just little efforts and compliments that can make your day.
@hannamanna Chatting up women in bars is hard, because so many people who chat women up in bars are desperate, drunk, or obnoxious. So women in bars tend not to react in too friendly a fashion when you initially approach them, which can be intimidating, especially if you don't do it much. Meeting women in other contexts is much easier.
@spongefile: true but maybe they shouldn't be so drunk when making the move in the first place :-) I think Finns should be encourage to approach the opposite sex other times too than that desperate last round in a bar before the taxi rank...Meeting new people can be so much fun.
@hannamanna Of course if you ARE desperate, drunk, or obnoxious, you deserve all the rejection you get. It's a vicious cycle though: when you're sober you're treated like you're already all of the above, so you have a glass of liquid courage, thereby becoming all of the above.
@jsaarikko chatting up, not chatting with. ie hitting on.
+1 for IRL interaction. and we girls have it easier, guys are more or less expected to make the first move. saturday in Tabu, i was just sitting by myself taking a break (while Stefan et. al. were sweating it out on the dance floor) and a group of guys started chatting with me. they were nice, not too drunk... and all married XD
@cybette: typical isn't it! I've tried making the moves but usually the guys have prefferred to be the ones making the first move...won't let that stop me though...@tulensrma: good point :-)
All the above comments are a good proof why the rules don't work...we all like different things and interact in our own way. Two way communications is the key!
Oh right. I had to read that a couple of times before I understood what was going on. I think I didn't get enough sleep last night (or any night for the past few months).
@munkimatt: just keep on practicing. Some times even the cheesiet lines work wonders. But good to hear there are men who like us women to make the first move
she has worked away for years, whenever she comes back it seems to coincide with me seeing someone else. First time she's been around and I've been single. She told me this weekend she's always liked me. It was quite sweet, I gave up hope on this a long time ago.
@alexleonard@munkimatt This is what I'm talking about. When you're not sure if she's interested, and you are interested, suddenly you have something to lose, and it's hard. Encouter initial suspicion/hostility on top of that, and it's doubly so. Which is the point at which perfectly nice guys, in desperation, resort to cheesy pick-up lines pushed on them by their more "successful" obnoxious friends. And what makes these friends more successful? It isn't the line. They just don't care as much, don't have as much invested. So their whole approach oozes confidence, which is what does ultimately impress those ladies who lack an obnoxious-bastard-detector, who would otherwise reject them on that account.
@spongelife I've been told on a few occaisons I'm a pretty charming bloke and I've often been told I'm a natural flirt, I unfortunately just can't use it when i want to.
@spongefile: some of them just don't want to learn from their mistakes. Most of us have to go through one of these guys before we learn to appreciate the good ones.
Perhaps the guy can't speak very good English and thought he was saying something completely different! Practice makes perfect... hopefully he'll come up with something better next time.
@ACUK: I doubt there will be a next time..:)..or then he actually was really interesting and @hannamanna is just trying to make that point with saying just the opposite, like women always do, and no-one understands it!
I've spent considerable amount of time with two guys who (by my accounts) chat up any woman in less than 10 minutes. They use the cheesiest pick-up lines you could think of. The kind that you stand next to them and go "you did NOT just use that line...!" They are succesful because they don't care, and have nothing invested. And they ooze confidence. I have rarely if ever seen anyone reject them -- so if there is an obxb-detector I haven't seen it in action!
On the other hand, they really are nice (and eventually quite frank with their intentions...), and lots of fun to hang out with.
Too bad they got enough of it and are spending all their time home with their girlfriends. ;)
@hannamanna: Out of interest, had his profile been exactly what you were after in a guy (good looks, same tastes, interests etc) would the dodgy opener mattered?
@TheBlueNile: what kind of wome you hang out with. What would be the point to say the opposite or pretend in these situations. It won't take you too far. @ymb: couldn't agree with you more! @spushnik: both sexes are usually drawn to the confident types for sure.
@hannamanna: I had a profile picture where I looked ok but a bit glum. Swapped it for one where I was a bit scruffy but had a natural smile (it was a surprise snap) and it worked wonders!
Clearly this guy needs to change more than his openers! :-D
@spushnik Then these guys have mastered the ultimate zen of not having too much invested, without actually being obnoxious bastards. It can be done by convincing yourself that even though this woman is insanely gorgeous and initially made your mouth go dry, she is still only one among many potentials, and you can afford a rejection since you have other potential prospects. But this also requires something much harder to achieve: genuine general confidence in yourself overall, not puffed-up fake confidence for the bar environment.
And lo, they may pass by many a Obxb-Detector without the Cold Laser of Scorn(sold separately) slicing them to shreds.
@spushnik Amen. I have to add, that despite hanging out with them for many many nights at bars, it remains a mystery to me how you get started on that road. It's an insignificant step for mankind, but a huge step for a man...
@hannamanna: and when do women know themselves what they really want?..:). Okey, just joking around here! And yes, I seem to like them a bit difficult.
@hannamanna: that was the universal and timeless joke I was playing with..:). Not commenting on this new guy, but sometimes my best experiences have come from going beyond the comfort level. Of course mileage on these varies a lot and usually they are not worth it.
Hmm, I don't think I really have enough experience with dating to know what to say. I've always ended up going out with people who I was friends with first. I'm not sure I've done much in the way of randomly meeting someone and asking them out or anything.
@tolonen: Who? I don't know anyone's real names on here.
@spongefile and @spushnik women don't have inbuilt obxb-detector, but they do have a desperation/fear detector, which is instinctual, they want the best mate possible, and signs of weakness get noted at a subliminal level.
"See, there's three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to fuck all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, Chuck. And all the assholes want us to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes, Chuck. And if they didn't fuck the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit"
@spushnik I managed to reach that zen for a brief period of about a year, just before I met my wife. It was kind of magic. I think it had something to do with deeply not caring whether I lived the rest of my life totally single or not.
@alexleonard Strauss wrote The Game, describing pick-up-artist techniques, and Laasanen is a Finnish "sociologist" who wrote a book about how women rule over men by controlling men's access to sex because they'll only sleep with rock stars.
@Frontieruk sure, I wouldn't doubt the universality of the fear detector, but the women who also come with obxb-detectors tend to be the higher quality sort, the ones who are the best mates possible. Because they can see through your bullshit and love you anyway. Those without may get disappointed later. ;P
The online dating has been part of my experience of doing different things online as well as a chance to meet new people in my new hometown. However I do prefer meeting people randomly through different irl routes. That is much more fun.
@spongefile the obxb-detectors fail with alcohol before the fear detectors ;)
With all seriousness though isn't there proof that a lasting impression in made within 30 seconds of clocking someone? That can surely be blagged through with a polite " Hi I'm frontieruk, would you mind if I brought you a drink?" then some crappy small talk about how bad the bar staff in said venue is? you're not having to be cocky, in fact you're acting if you have known her for a while which is actually the main problem when attempting to pull.
I bet those here saying they can't talk to women in bars, get on really well with their friends partners and are chatty and witty with them due to the familiarity they have with them.
@frontieruk Yep, but what really counts is how you say "hi my name is..." which is what requires the zen. To make sure it doesn't sound desperate or ob-like on those first 30 seconds. :)
@spongebob when a new person is introduced to you at work do you have to be in that zen state? No you are just relaxed as you are familiar with the situation, as with the guys who say they can't talk to women and do do bloody great jobs at flirting with my other half :-S as they are on that sure grounding nothing will happen they relax.
86 comments so far
he must get all the ladies
1 year, 1 month ago by constantine
I guess he meant, "I can speak better English than you." So much for that twerp. Probably trying out some pathetic version of The Game "neg".
1 year, 1 month ago by spongefile
What a dork!
1 year, 1 month ago by jsaarikko
Yup, demonstrated some of my finnish writing skills to let him know i'm not interested. @spongefile: the person who invented the game has lot to answer for. Not a fan of the rules at all, just think they ruin all the fun.
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
The Game, in my opinion, is a list of actions deduced by observation without actually understanding the reasons why they work. It's like knowing how to tell time by the sun while still thinking that it revolves around the earth.
1 year, 1 month ago by spongefile
The Game? Is this some Neill Strauss bullplop?
1 year, 1 month ago by tolonen
Yah. I've been the target of several amateurish attempts by Mr. Strauss's acolytes way back when I was still seen in clubs on a semi-regular basis, before I passed through the Membrane of Parenthood. :)
1 year, 1 month ago by spongefile
Now the guy is calling it as sarcasim and wanted to point out for the use of smileys...he's certainly not my type if he thinks that was sarcastic or funny. Will just ignore his second mail.
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
this is why one should keep digital communication with a potential (or current) mate as limited as possible. for me at least, i can have an epic conversation without saying a word. all it takes is a smile, nod, wink and a gentle grace of the hand or knee to tell where things are going to go.
1 year, 1 month ago by constantine
Sarcasm should not require smileys. Then again, maybe it's his best effort? If he's not an arrogant shit, he could just be shy and trying out what his friends told him to do. Chatting up women is hard.
1 year, 1 month ago by spongefile
Good point besides flirting is much more fun in IRL but first you need to get that far ;-) Always prefer meeting people in person anyways but everything seems to done by text or email over here...
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
I don't think chatting up women is hard...it's just perceived hard. People should just talk to each other more. Would love to have more flirting in everyday life over here, just little efforts and compliments that can make your day.
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
@constantine I can hear the funk orchestra tuning up in the background...are those business socks you're wearing?
1 year, 1 month ago by spongefile
...or gestures even...
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
@hannamanna Chatting up women in bars is hard, because so many people who chat women up in bars are desperate, drunk, or obnoxious. So women in bars tend not to react in too friendly a fashion when you initially approach them, which can be intimidating, especially if you don't do it much. Meeting women in other contexts is much easier.
1 year, 1 month ago by spongefile
I agree with @hannyfunnymanny , chatting with women is not hard at all. And also that people should talk more...
1 year, 1 month ago by jsaarikko
@spongefile: true but maybe they shouldn't be so drunk when making the move in the first place :-) I think Finns should be encourage to approach the opposite sex other times too than that desperate last round in a bar before the taxi rank...Meeting new people can be so much fun.
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
@jsaarikko: thx for a yet another new nick...how many are there now ;-)
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
Besides, if he's that shy, he's not @hannamanna's type, anyways.
1 year, 1 month ago by tulensrma
@hannamanna Of course if you ARE desperate, drunk, or obnoxious, you deserve all the rejection you get. It's a vicious cycle though: when you're sober you're treated like you're already all of the above, so you have a glass of liquid courage, thereby becoming all of the above.
@jsaarikko chatting up, not chatting with. ie hitting on.
1 year, 1 month ago by spongefile
+1 for IRL interaction. and we girls have it easier, guys are more or less expected to make the first move. saturday in Tabu, i was just sitting by myself taking a break (while Stefan et. al. were sweating it out on the dance floor) and a group of guys started chatting with me. they were nice, not too drunk... and all married XD
1 year, 1 month ago by cybette
lawl!
1 year, 1 month ago by constantine
@cybette: typical isn't it! I've tried making the moves but usually the guys have prefferred to be the ones making the first move...won't let that stop me though...@tulensrma: good point :-)
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
@cybette: IRL interaction? You talking about Ireland?
I hate making the first move. I'm always convinced that "she" couldn't really be interested.
1 year, 1 month ago by alexleonard
@haddymaddy: Dunno, they just keep coming. ;) @spongefile: Oh, I've forgotten all about chatting up women. It's been a while... :)
1 year, 1 month ago by jsaarikko
@alexleonard: in real life. Ireland could be fun too :) and i don't mind making the first move either, some guys seem to like it.
1 year, 1 month ago by cybette
@alexleonard: in real life...
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
All the above comments are a good proof why the rules don't work...we all like different things and interact in our own way. Two way communications is the key!
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
Oh right. I had to read that a couple of times before I understood what was going on. I think I didn't get enough sleep last night (or any night for the past few months).
:)
1 year, 1 month ago by alexleonard
@spongephile: lol at orchestra & socks :D
Sarcasm & men who know how to make witty ironic remarks, which are still not hurtful. <3
1 year, 1 month ago by Suviko
I like sarcasim and witty men but this one was neither...
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
I'm terrible at chatting women up, I need them to make the first move.
1 year, 1 month ago by munkimatt
@munkimatt: just keep on practicing. Some times even the cheesiet lines work wonders. But good to hear there are men who like us women to make the first move
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
@hanna I don't actually mind, I can talk to women very easily, but when it's one i like I tend to get a bit...clumsy.
1 year, 1 month ago by munkimatt
Accidentally dropping your shoe on their head etc?
1 year, 1 month ago by alexleonard
@alex lol exactly. Once dropped a full bottle of beer, it managed to spin in mid air and land neck down inside her boot.
1 year, 1 month ago by munkimatt
Depending how clumsy you get of course but it can be seen quite sweet
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
@munkimatt: That is incredible. I think that kind of remarkable feat should be applauded. And if she wasn't amused then she wasn't worth it ;)
1 year, 1 month ago by alexleonard
Lol that's clumsy.:)
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
Agree with @alex
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
That was 7 years ago. Kissed her for the first time this weekend lol
1 year, 1 month ago by munkimatt
You take your time;) Talk about persistance
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
She definitely should have made a first move
1 year, 1 month ago by alexleonard
she has worked away for years, whenever she comes back it seems to coincide with me seeing someone else. First time she's been around and I've been single. She told me this weekend she's always liked me. It was quite sweet, I gave up hope on this a long time ago.
1 year, 1 month ago by munkimatt
sounds like the notebook, but the 2008 version. you can call it "the text message"
1 year, 1 month ago by constantine
i'm the one usually spilling or dropping stuff, or falling on my ass. So... :P
1 year, 1 month ago by cybette
Hey that's nice. See she didn't mind about your clumsyness.
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
@cybette we should drink together lol
1 year, 1 month ago by munkimatt
@munkimatt for sure. Look forward to it!
1 year, 1 month ago by cybette
That could be messy:)
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
@alexleonard @munkimatt This is what I'm talking about. When you're not sure if she's interested, and you are interested, suddenly you have something to lose, and it's hard. Encouter initial suspicion/hostility on top of that, and it's doubly so. Which is the point at which perfectly nice guys, in desperation, resort to cheesy pick-up lines pushed on them by their more "successful" obnoxious friends. And what makes these friends more successful? It isn't the line. They just don't care as much, don't have as much invested. So their whole approach oozes confidence, which is what does ultimately impress those ladies who lack an obnoxious-bastard-detector, who would otherwise reject them on that account.
1 year, 1 month ago by spongefile
we'll end up covered in booze and on our asses but i'll be cool :D
1 year, 1 month ago by munkimatt
As to why certain women lack the obnoxious-bastard-detector, this is still a mystery to me.
1 year, 1 month ago by spongefile
they've yet to meet me.
1 year, 1 month ago by constantine
Sounds like a blast! :D
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
@spongelife I've been told on a few occaisons I'm a pretty charming bloke and I've often been told I'm a natural flirt, I unfortunately just can't use it when i want to.
1 year, 1 month ago by munkimatt
@spongefile: some of them just don't want to learn from their mistakes. Most of us have to go through one of these guys before we learn to appreciate the good ones.
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
Perhaps the guy can't speak very good English and thought he was saying something completely different! Practice makes perfect... hopefully he'll come up with something better next time.
1 year, 1 month ago by ACUK
@acuk: could be but unfortunately he needs to test his language skills with someone else next time around
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
@ACUK: I doubt there will be a next time..:)..or then he actually was really interesting and @hannamanna is just trying to make that point with saying just the opposite, like women always do, and no-one understands it!
1 year, 1 month ago by TheBlueNile
@hannamanna: just showing my empathy skills here..:)
1 year, 1 month ago by TheBlueNile
never a good plan to start comparing skills, especially before the first date, eh.
1 year, 1 month ago by ymb
I've spent considerable amount of time with two guys who (by my accounts) chat up any woman in less than 10 minutes. They use the cheesiest pick-up lines you could think of. The kind that you stand next to them and go "you did NOT just use that line...!" They are succesful because they don't care, and have nothing invested. And they ooze confidence. I have rarely if ever seen anyone reject them -- so if there is an obxb-detector I haven't seen it in action!
On the other hand, they really are nice (and eventually quite frank with their intentions...), and lots of fun to hang out with.
Too bad they got enough of it and are spending all their time home with their girlfriends. ;)
1 year, 1 month ago by spushnik
@hannamanna: Out of interest, had his profile been exactly what you were after in a guy (good looks, same tastes, interests etc) would the dodgy opener mattered?
1 year, 1 month ago by ACUK
Shit, I sound like I'm defending the bloke, but I'm not. I'm actually quite good at openers... it's just down hill from thereon in! :-D
1 year, 1 month ago by ACUK
@acuk:lol. I have to admit that the combination of his opening line and cocky profile picture was such a turn off that I didn't even bother to check.
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
@TheBlueNile: what kind of wome you hang out with. What would be the point to say the opposite or pretend in these situations. It won't take you too far. @ymb: couldn't agree with you more! @spushnik: both sexes are usually drawn to the confident types for sure.
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
@hannamanna: I had a profile picture where I looked ok but a bit glum. Swapped it for one where I was a bit scruffy but had a natural smile (it was a surprise snap) and it worked wonders!
Clearly this guy needs to change more than his openers! :-D
1 year, 1 month ago by ACUK
@spushnik Then these guys have mastered the ultimate zen of not having too much invested, without actually being obnoxious bastards. It can be done by convincing yourself that even though this woman is insanely gorgeous and initially made your mouth go dry, she is still only one among many potentials, and you can afford a rejection since you have other potential prospects. But this also requires something much harder to achieve: genuine general confidence in yourself overall, not puffed-up fake confidence for the bar environment.
And lo, they may pass by many a Obxb-Detector without the Cold Laser of Scorn(sold separately) slicing them to shreds.
1 year, 1 month ago by spongefile
@acuk: he might be beyond help but now someone else's headache :-) smiley, natural pics always work better
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
@spushnik Amen. I have to add, that despite hanging out with them for many many nights at bars, it remains a mystery to me how you get started on that road. It's an insignificant step for mankind, but a huge step for a man...
1 year, 1 month ago by spushnik
I think Neil Strauss and Henry Laasanen need to get together and fuck each others' brains out.
1 year, 1 month ago by tolonen
@hannamanna: and when do women know themselves what they really want?..:). Okey, just joking around here! And yes, I seem to like them a bit difficult.
1 year, 1 month ago by TheBlueNile
@thebluenile:one could easily ask the same about men;) challenges are good but not when it's just plain difficult all around
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
@hannamanna: that was the universal and timeless joke I was playing with..:). Not commenting on this new guy, but sometimes my best experiences have come from going beyond the comfort level. Of course mileage on these varies a lot and usually they are not worth it.
1 year, 1 month ago by TheBlueNile
Hmm, I don't think I really have enough experience with dating to know what to say. I've always ended up going out with people who I was friends with first. I'm not sure I've done much in the way of randomly meeting someone and asking them out or anything.
@tolonen: Who? I don't know anyone's real names on here.
1 year, 1 month ago by alexleonard
@spongefile and @spushnik women don't have inbuilt obxb-detector, but they do have a desperation/fear detector, which is instinctual, they want the best mate possible, and signs of weakness get noted at a subliminal level.
1 year, 1 month ago by Frontieruk
Hence the feeling that some males have that they must be dicks to not appear "weak"?
1 year, 1 month ago by alexleonard
Is this a good time to quote Team America?
"See, there's three kinds of people: dicks, pussies, and assholes. Pussies think everyone can get along, and dicks just want to fuck all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assholes, Chuck. And all the assholes want us to shit all over everything! So, pussies may get mad at dicks once in a while, because pussies get fucked by dicks. But dicks also fuck assholes, Chuck. And if they didn't fuck the assholes, you know what you'd get? You'd get your dick and your pussy all covered in shit"
1 year, 1 month ago by alexleonard
@spushnik I managed to reach that zen for a brief period of about a year, just before I met my wife. It was kind of magic. I think it had something to do with deeply not caring whether I lived the rest of my life totally single or not.
@alexleonard Strauss wrote The Game, describing pick-up-artist techniques, and Laasanen is a Finnish "sociologist" who wrote a book about how women rule over men by controlling men's access to sex because they'll only sleep with rock stars.
@Frontieruk sure, I wouldn't doubt the universality of the fear detector, but the women who also come with obxb-detectors tend to be the higher quality sort, the ones who are the best mates possible. Because they can see through your bullshit and love you anyway. Those without may get disappointed later. ;P
1 year, 1 month ago by spongefile
@spushnik: Thanks for clearing that up.
1 year, 1 month ago by alexleonard
The online dating has been part of my experience of doing different things online as well as a chance to meet new people in my new hometown. However I do prefer meeting people randomly through different irl routes. That is much more fun.
1 year, 1 month ago by hannamanna
@spongefile the obxb-detectors fail with alcohol before the fear detectors ;)
With all seriousness though isn't there proof that a lasting impression in made within 30 seconds of clocking someone? That can surely be blagged through with a polite " Hi I'm frontieruk, would you mind if I brought you a drink?" then some crappy small talk about how bad the bar staff in said venue is? you're not having to be cocky, in fact you're acting if you have known her for a while which is actually the main problem when attempting to pull.
I bet those here saying they can't talk to women in bars, get on really well with their friends partners and are chatty and witty with them due to the familiarity they have with them.
1 year, 1 month ago by Frontieruk
@frontieruk Yep, but what really counts is how you say "hi my name is..." which is what requires the zen. To make sure it doesn't sound desperate or ob-like on those first 30 seconds. :)
1 year, 1 month ago by spongefile
@Frontieruk Exactly ;-)
1 year, 1 month ago by Itkovian
@spongebob when a new person is introduced to you at work do you have to be in that zen state? No you are just relaxed as you are familiar with the situation, as with the guys who say they can't talk to women and do do bloody great jobs at flirting with my other half :-S as they are on that sure grounding nothing will happen they relax.
1 year ago by Frontieruk